Claymore 23
September 5th, 2007 by Shirukii
Superb.
Was I the only one who was expecting this fight to last a little longer than the one episode it did? While it may have been the result of having it overhyped, I wasn’t as impressed with this fight as I thought I would be. Many manga readers were hailing it as the fight that would define the series, the one they had been looking forward to all this time, and in that light, it failed to deliver. Don’t get me wrong, it was still a great fight, seeing Clare finetune her newly acquired speed in the heat of battle, but it lacked the urgency and tension of say…the Duff fight or even the Ophelia fight, both of which I thought were done better than Ligardes.
Episode Rating: 9/10
Ligardes stands in complete awe, looking down at his severed arm, impressed at the display of Clare’s speed, one which even his eyes lost track of momentarily. He’s not the only one frozen in surprise, Helen and the other surviving claymore can’t help but stare at Clare’s awakened legs which look like they were stolen from Sleipnir. With her newly acquired speed and her ever improving Flash Sword skills, Clare continues the battle with the Silver Eyed Lion King as the remaining claymore clear the battlefield of the wounded.
As the fight drags on, Ligardes complains about how annoying it is to fight with one arm, so quickly kicking Clare aside, he goes to retrieve the one she severed. But Helen gets there first, using her extendable limbs to snatch it away and carve it into pieces, much like Ophelia did when Clare lost one of her arms.
Cutting his losses, Ligardes returns to the battle at hand and makes an important realization. When he goes to attack Clare she evades his attack, but in doing so moves so uncontrollably fast that she rams straight into a while. Ligardes figures out that Clare’s new speed comes at a price, control. She may possess lightning fast speed, but she’s unable to stop at will and make fine adjustments to her trajectory once she starts to run, so even the slightest dodge out of a linear path saves Ligardes from her attacks. But Clare knows this best and is already struggling her hardest to bring her new skill under control.
As Clare and Ligardes continue to face off, Helen decides to jump back in and fires a shot off at Ligardes, which is easily evaded. As he goes to punish her involvement, Clare tries to pull the same move on Ligardes again, attempting to slice off his arm as he reaches for Helen. But not one to fall for the same trick twice, Ligardes sees it coming and avoids. But surprisingly, he’s unable to finish Helen off before Clare recovers from her dash and is standing in front of him once again, a clear indication of how fast her control is developing.
Acknowledging her power, Ligardes finally decides to get serious against Clare, admitting that she’s the first serious challenge he’s had since taking on Isley. With a loud roar and a very DBZ’esque aura, he releases the full extent of his yoki and prepares to fight with all he has.
Meanwhile, Priscilla and Isley are slowly making their way towards Pieta, Priscilla looking a little down after having been abandoned by Raki, but Isley reassures her that she’ll see him again soon enough. As Ligardes unleashes his yoki to fight at full force against Clare, Isley stops in surprise, shocked that there’s a claymore in Pieta that would force even Ligardes to become serious.
As the fight drags on, Helen looks for an opening to fire off another extended stab at Ligardes when she suddenly notices a civilian wandering the streets. She takes him to where the rest of the claymore are taking shelter where she notices it’s Raki, who defiantly refuses to stay put and insists on helping Clare. As he runs out to see her, he notices her awakened legs and memories of Priscilla and the awakened beings he’s seen in the past come flooding to his mind. Realizing that he’s powerless to help in Clare’s current situation, he falls to the floor and is consoled by Helen.
The fight finally begins to show signs of ending as Ligardes backs Clare into a crumbled building where he believes her legs are useless. With all his strength he tears a tower from its foundation and hurls it with all his strength at Clare, an action which both he and the far away Isley believe is the end of the fight. But as Ligardes turns and walks away victoriously, he is surprised by the sight of Clare descending from the sky at him, releasing a yoki that strikes fear into Ligardes, Isley and even the usually calm Priscilla. Clare puts all she has into one final charge at Ligardes, with nothing else but defeating him, who mercilessly killed many of her comrades, in her mind Clare pushes herself closer to awakening than she ever has. As her Flash Sword tears Ligardes into pieces of unrecognizable flesh, the Silver Eyed Lion King can do nothing but concede to her conviction and strength, a truly superb fight to the death.
Thoughts
Hmm…after summarizing the fight, I’m finding myself a little more content with it. It did a good job in giving Clare the h4x she needed to beat Ligardes, but at the same time making it apparent that it wasn’t a seamless victory and that she just barely got through it. And even then, I’m sure the repercussions of going so far past her limits will be made apparent next episode.
What I didn’t like about the fight was how repetitive it was. I wasn’t expecting much in terms of animation, since Claymore hasn’t made a name for itself by being a technically superior anime. But still…the extent to which they reused rather simplistic animation frames was a little disappointing, even by Claymore’s standard. Also, the fight itself was bland, even though Clare pulled out her awakened legs to even the odds, the urgency seen in all other Claymore fights where the combatants continually pull new abilities and strategies to outdo their opponents trump cards just wasn’t there. Especially in regard to Ligardes becoming serious and unleashing that massive aura of yoki, aside from the explosion of red swirly wind, I didn’t see much of a boost in power after that.
Returning to the topic of Clare going over her limits, I’m really hoping that it won’t be Raki that once again pulls her back from awakening. Many manga readers hinted at Jean having one last duty to fulfill to Clare, and by the looks of this episode I’m guessing it was her who brings Clare back after this battle in the manga, which makes a lot of sense as its the perfect way to repay her after she did the same thing back with Riful. But the anime’s deviations from the manga and the situation as it stands suggests that it will be Raki who will take over that role.
On that note, a lot of people are complaining about the animes various deviation from the manga plot, and while I can’t blame them, it’s something you guys just have to accept. Thinking about it, I would do the same thing if I were in Madhouse’s position. Abruptly stopping the anime after the Pieta arc and leaving things open ended regarding Priscilla, Raki and Isley, something that would only be covered by the timeskip would be even worse than how things are now. At least this way the anime is stopping at a point where things can be wrapped up without leaving a ton of loose ends, even if that does mean changing Raki’s storyline and relegating Jean’s position as Clare’s savior moot. Yes it’s never fun to see an anime deviate from its source material, but compared to a sudden stop in a series that may never see a second season, it makes much more sense to alter the ending so there’s at least a bit of closure, regardless of how different it may be compared to the original. Plus, it’ll encourage people to go read/buy the manga!
So I’m guessing next episode will deal with the aftermath of the Pieta attack and somehow bring Clare back from the borderline of awakening. And either in the closing minutes of next episode or the opening minutes of 25, Isley and Priscilla will show up to throw things into chaos once again. But hey, just a baseless theory on my point, and if it happens I’m rather curious as to how Clare and co. will manage to escape from arguably the two strongest AOs in existence, or God forbid, even beat them.
Manga countdown: 3 weeks
~ Shirukii ~
57 Responses to “Claymore 23”
Leave a Reply
Please use [spoiler] [/spoiler] tags for spoilers.
Loading ...
wtf! as a mangareader i feel like claire forgot to use some other “h4x” before killing the lionking lol :) the fight in the manga was cooler because of that imo :(
Sometimes, I think the manga fans want to go back to the time when most anime were little more than comic books on screen, with every scene drawn almost the exact same way as the frames in the graphic serials. Why fans would insist upon that type of redundancy these days I don’t really know. I for one want to enjoy this series on its own terms rather than judging it through the prism of already established story arcs.
That being said, if Raki “heals” Clare by once again bathing her in his own tears, I might have to consider abandoning that argument altogether. Although it appears that Galatea is coming back next episode, so maybe she’ll have a role in bringing Clare back.
@Shirukii: Anyone who has read the manga, knows just how wrong you are. Madhouse left out some very important details regarding Clare that made the fight with Ligardes truly… ’superb’. In other words, Madhouse ruined one of the best scenes in the manga. Don’t worry, I encourage you to go read/buy the manga to find out what was left out.
Aside from Clare hitting the same walls over and over again, Raki’s is beginning to bug me. I gave him credit for courage in the past episodes but I decided to take it all back. He’s annoying. If Raki stops Clare from awakening, I’ll jump straight to the manga. I’ve been teased long enough.
On a positive note, Jeane (Clare’s no. 1 fan) is alive! XD
I had to doublecheck if Gonzo had a hand in this series after this episode.
Last week’s was horrible, with some AWFUL directing and pace, but they still could redeem themselves with this one. Instead of that they’ve managed to make it even shittier, and what makes it worse is that the story was suited for 26 episodes from the beginning, so there was no need to make any changes for the sake of closure.
About the fight with Rigaldo: in the manga it was quick and to the point, the point being Clare kicking his ass in an awesome way, without interruptions, without Rigaldo leveling up, and without that lame “we have equal strenght, so let’s jump around the roofs while everyone hide until Raki shows up”.
OK, if i have to say about the fight between Ligardes and Clare, i will say it much more detail or alittle bit better than manga but what makes ppl dont like it is because they drag it like 3 eps just to show this fight where the manga should be already in the past 3 eps. And the other reason is they didnt show next state of Clare’s Awaken where she awaked her other part of her body and kill Ligardes. Lol, u know what i would guess? i think they keep the next state for Priscilla/Isley. And i guess all the rest 3eps is all about Priscilla, Isley, Raki and Clare because there is no other thing they can show us with the next 3 eps left.
What i dont want to say is the rumor was true, it was like 3 weeks ago that the rumor said Raki is going to see Clare in Pieta, Priscilla sense Teresa’s Yoki as they show in this ep and i guess the last one it wouldn’t be wrong either.
Oh Yeah! my Galatea is coming back to the screen. I dont know how strong she is after short among of time she left Clare but i would expect to see Galatea after timeskip maybe it even more like god?
Rossiu:
If the spoiler you were giving is true, then I would beg to differ on the idea that a quick and brutal fight would be more desireable than a long drawn-out one in this episode. Although you are right that this episode does lack in eye candy, I doubt a quick fight would deliver in that department.
Not so much superb, as satisfying. Sadly, MadHouse did leave out some of the important elements of Claire’s berserk sequence. After doing such a grand job in the execution of the other fights, they meddled too much.
Claire didn’t really go ‘all the way’ like she was supposed to, in the last real battle before the ‘time skip’ in the manga. We also miss out on the very surprising Jean moment from the manga.
That said—- its quite likely they are saving Claire’s maximum performance for her showdown with Isley / Priscilla, or whatever other action is going to constitute the climax. Hopefully, MadHouse has an ace up their sleeve.
And, was that Galatea in the preview?
Well, I for one think the anime stands well on its own. I certainly wouldn’t have any complaints if I never read the manga. But I did. So I have to say that I’m disappointed that they left out some important details.
I’m trying to support the artist so I only read up to vol. 10. I know I can easily find scanalations online but I know once I do, I won’t buy a thing. In any case, I feel that anime is made to be flashier that’s why we have the power up scene with Ligardes.
But come on, it was awesome when Clare slice and diced Ligardes. That was exhilarating for me.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/9837/claymorefj8.png
Yeah, manga readers were looking for something a little more like the above.
Ligardes was so impressed with Claire in the manga, not only because she was strong enough to beat him, but because she was able to consciously control the nature of her awakening. She chose just the new appendages and weapons she needed, when she needed them. Horse legs, giant claws, bladed tentacles, whatever!
I’m still enjoying the series but my enthusiasm has lessened. If Madhouse is trying to tie up loose ends, I would expect to see Riful and Duff show up. Riful’s attempted recruitment of Clare played a huge part in the series.
Maybe they’ll stop fighting and relax in some mountain hot springs to end the show.
@ twsl: Seems that way =( God I can’t wait to read the manga.
@ ItAintEazy: I didn’t notice the preview hailing the return of Galatea, though I still think Raki being the one to save her is a likely turn out.
@ Trellisaze: I know that Madhouse screwed it up, there was no way that people hyped it up that much only to result in this. And it’s not a matter of if I’ll read the manga, it’s when. As soon as the anime finishes, I’ll be on it, I have all 9 English volumes sitting right besides me.
@ SHiN_aKuMa: From what I hear from manga readers, if Jean’s role in helping Clare is usurped by Raki, she might as well have died =\
@ Rossiu Dies: While I agree they have screwed things up, no matter how many episodes Claymore would have been slotted for, they would have had to deviate from the manga. For the very simple reason that the manga isn’t finished yet. And I think Claymore getting a subpar ending relative to the manga is far better than filler arcs.
@ Siva: No matter what happens, I hope Clare doesn’t beat Priscilla and Isley within the next three episodes. That would be far too much h4x for me to believe. Galatea coming back is awesome news, but I’m still not over Flora’s death ;_;
@ Silvering: Seems like it was Galatea in the preview. And WTF, her arm looks like a swiss army knife, it has everything lol. I still stand by my opinion that Clare shouldn’t have enough power to take on Isley and Priscilla yet, but it might just be worth it if we get to see that in action.
@ Ray: I know what you mean with the scanlations, I’m holding out on reading fansubs and choose to buy the actual volumes instead. It’s the only shounen that I feel is actually worth buying.
This series is so good, that I bought the English volumes, then read the scanlations afterwards, and I’m STILL buying the English volumes :)
Well, judgingfrom what everyone says about the anime diverging from the manga, I went ahead and read the manga first. Truth be told, the fight bewteen Clare and Ligardes was pretty much the same as the one in the manga up till the point where Ligardes did his power up move. Everything after that to the time when he attacked Helen is made up by madhouse. The only major difference bewteen the anime and the manga is that in the anime, Clare uses the Flash sword as a finisher move, while in the manga, she uses the ultimate hax as the finishing move. Without revealing to much, lets just say that clare suddenly gains alot more Flash swords.
That, and the fact that Isley, Priscila and Raki heads of in the direct opposite direction that they were heading in the manga.
@Shirukii: “And WTF, her arm looks like a swiss army knife.” that is the only one reason i read the manga just for that one picture, Isn’t it enough for my reason?
“I hope Clare doesn’t beat Priscilla and Isley within the next three episodes.” thats what i said but i didnt mean that way and Clare needs at least 25 more episodes before she can beat Priscilla and Isley otherwise i will kill some1 from Madhouse. I would guess there is still a way for Madhouse to create a new direction for anime to met the manga plot after the season 1. What if they make Raki realize that he wasn’t worth enough to protect Clare run off from Clare to beg Isley for more training before she knows he was there. And Why the hell Isley went to Pieta instead of went to South to beat Luciela?
@Silvering: Just for that picture it brings me back my old memory where Helen say to Clare “I’ll never forgive you… for making me do this” Lol, i never though Helen could say those kind of words.
TOO MUCH TALKING. This is not Gohan vs Cell, neither is it Goku vs Freeza, what the fuck are they doing to my Claymore?
Shirukii, I don’t know about you, but this is deviating from the spirit of what makes Claymore good (e.g. no annoyingly long battles or talking). They practically made half a chapter into an episode. No, wait, it’s not even half — more of like 1/3rd of a chapter. Rather terrible. This looks like it’s a trainwreck, incoming fast.
There could have been better ways about this, but taking the hackneyed path for an abrupt end wasn’t something I foresaw. Ugh.
see i told u i knew that the series would be crap if they deviated.
its just the ppl at madhouse can’t direct worth anything.
the only reason the others weren’t so bad is because they pretty much followed everything from plot to scene changes.
Wonderful.. nothing more i need to say honestly
And I have also read the manga, had to get it after ep 21 and I feel that the slight deviations of the plot line only add to advance the story line further as a anime than as a manga
Also I am highly curious on how this will end, has madhouse made any mention of a second anime season? Or will this one be it?
@Shirukii: The manga isn’t finished, but that’s no reason to change anything because this arc finishes this part of the story. Everyone who followed the manga knew right from the beginning that the anime would end here.
What are they going to do anyways? Have Clare kill Priscilla? Isley? Will the number one Claymore show up too, along with Riful and the third Abyssal One (which hasn’t even appeared yet)? Or are they bringing Raki and Priscilla in just so they can have a few words with Clare? It doesn’t matter what they do, it won’t be a satisfactory ending, and the more they change the more difficult will it be to get a second season or ovas in the future.
For every Manga readers here, I have some questions to ask u guys about why r u guys complain about this anime so much?
The questions are, What do u expect to see at the end of ep 26 if the anime follows everything in manga? Will it be an acceptable ending for the anime? Do you know what r u going to see at the end of ep 26 if the anime follow the manga?
And this one is my personal question, Why cant u wait and see its ending first before u say it wasnt worth anymore?
If u happened to ask me, did i read the manga or not? And ur answer is Yes i did.
There is a timeskip coming up very soon. I think it would have been a good point to end the series. The events before the jump would do nicely to have viewers anxiously waiting for the next season.
Of course there would be no filler materials, and we just simply wait till season two airs (like CODE GEASS I guess) Well thats just what I hoped for..
@Siva: I am personally enjoying the anime series even though it has diverse much from the manga. This anime series has taken on its own path, and that is perfectly fine. I don’t like clip hanger ending and then wait two or three years later to find out the result. I prefer the anime to end as it is now. Alternate endings are always fun. Beside, now I have two different Claymore story to enjoy, one on the Manga, and one on the Anime.
Siva: i personally just hate it when the anime changes from the manga cuz in my opinion ther making it alot worse. But i understand why their doing it. its just i was kind of hoping for a better way. they way i see it right now , thers no way to end it so that it’ll make manga readers say “wow that was a good alternate ending”
@ lainofthewired: You sir, are the type of person that keeps the anime business intact. I’ll buy English volumes, but not if I’ve already ready them =\
@ Alias: Silvering already posted a pic of it, lol. Priscilla, Isley and Rai heading to Pieta instead is because it would be weird to end the series without giving any indication of what happens to them. Madhouse needed a way to wrap things up in the time they had, and this is admittedly the best option.
@ Siva: The more I think about it, the more I’m leaning towards Clare actually killing Priscilla and Isley. It’s the easiest way to finish the anime and tie up all the loose ends =(
@ Owen S: But consider the alternative, a sudden ending without knowing when/if another season would be coming and a lot of unanswered questions. While I don’t really like what Madhouse is doing right now, I can’t say I don’t understand why they’re doing it.
@ Cliff: See above comment to Owen S. While it may be an unwanted deviation, something had to give.
@ Fuzzims: If Madhouse had decided to follow the manga directly and end the anime on a cliffhanger before/just after the timeskip, I could see a sequel happening. But as things are going now, I doubt we’ll see another season.
@ Rossiu Dies: But I think that’s what they have in mind, Madhouse probably knows it won’t be doing a second season, and chose to put an end to things, one way or another.
@ DSJFX18: Again, I doubt that there will be a second season of the anime. The manga is progressing WAYYY too slowly for enough material for another season to show up any time soon.
@ shinichi: Original anime endings never do justice to their manga counterparts, but I agree that it’s nice to see them done anyways. Take Death Note for example, which had a different ending in the manga, anime and live action versions.
LOL… that is a good point. Both of them seemed to do more grunting than powering up.
Anyway, I still don’t see what the big deal is with the manga deviations. The idea is still the same, regardless of whether Clare is also able to Awaken her ears or her liver. People will hate on anything, because it would be too difficult to give credit where it’s due. If you hate it so much, stop watching and go back to reading the manga.
Personally, I like the anime better than the manga so far.
@Shirukii: I understand what u mean and it seems to happened that way, but i dont think Madhouse is going to ruin the series. What i would guess is Madhouse tries find a way to end the season one with an acceptable ending and create a new direction for the season two to caught up with the manga without ruin the series. As u stated above, i still doubt about the season 2 will ever exist? Oh yea i wish another side story coming out soon? Cant wait after reading Teresa and Miria’s side story.
@DSJFX18: “There is a timeskip coming up very soon. I think it would have been a good point to end the series.” I am waiting for u to say this sentence.
“I think it would have been a good point to end the series.” Do you know why i quote u this sentence? Ok, I guess u have read the manga, then i will ask u something.
Before the timeskip, Do you know Clare, Helen, Deneve and Miria r they died in Pieta-battle or not? Do u remember that Isley mentions that Clare, Helen, Deneve and Miria died in the battle?
Do u know what happen between Raki, Isley and Priscilla? I only remember the 3 of them stay altogether all this time even after timeskip they never mention Raki find out about Priscilla or how r they relationship going on in the manga.
If this is what u want to see at the end of ep 26 then i will ask u another question. How r those anime-fan who dont read the manga supposed to take it?
Do you know y Air Grear got a bad reputation? it is not like Air Grear is a bad or suck anime but because of its ending ends at a point where it isnt suppose to end and left alot of things behind. And where is my season 2?
“we just simply wait till season two airs (like CODE GEASS I guess) Well thats just what I hoped for..” Do u know when the season 2 of Claymore will come out? Next year? Do you know for how long does it take the manga to reach this point? It almost takes like 4 or 5 years to reach this point, did u know that?
@Kabitzin: LOL…. LOL, I just love ur idea, can we have a high-five?
o_O Oy! the third one is out? Rigardo, Isley and Priscilla’s Side story? Dont come any closer to me, Shirukii. I can read it by myself ^_^
shittiest episode ever, just killed the series for me. Basically left out 3/4 of the coolness of the fight and deviated from the manga to the point were they are 2 storys completely different with same ppl’s name. Dunno, rly bummer imo…
Were is Clare awakening her arms to kill the lion king?
Were is Rake living with Priscillia and Easley?
Wtf is gonna happen to the “8 years later” part?
Why is everyone hidden safely inside a house?
Why the FUCK is gallatea comming back to screen when she’s supposed to remain in hiding till manga 74+ were she was rumored to become quite important?
WTF IS GOING ON HERE????
Great show… with a shitty end. Another to put down the can.
“Anyway, I still don’t see what the big deal is with the manga deviations. The idea is still the same, regardless of whether Clare is also able to Awaken her ears or her liver. People will hate on anything, because it would be too difficult to give credit where it’s due. If you hate it so much, stop watching and go back to reading the manga.”
The idea is NOT the same. The whole story is not the same. Hell, it cant even rly be called Claymore anymore. They took NGE and turned it into DBZ. Fuck, this is from Eifen Lied to Sailor Moon! Why do i hate it? CAUSE IT SUCKS AND HAVE BEEN WAY OVERUSED!!!!
Im tired of entire episodes dedicated to staring contests.
Im tired of scene reusal flashbacks.
Im tired of superduper fire-comming-from-dude powerup with no real effect or basis.
Im tired of hype-buildups with a one-move endings.
Im tired of crappy botched up endings were everyone dies or the main char somehow oneshot the big boss.
Im tired of fucking Rakki!
How do you want me to give credit? If i cook you a 20$ steak, you eat it, then take a dump… will you ask credit for having made that poop? This episode was poop. It was a great japanese show turned into typical american kid-TV crap. Yay for Dragon-Balls fans i guess, they got a new remake to talk about…
As for how would i have wanted them to finish the story? Easy. With a good ending. Claymore from episode one has been an insane cliffhanger series. Make it end as it ran. Little lights in the sky disapearing… and just a hint of a survival. Would it have sucked if there was to be no season 2? No! It wouldve been way better then what we are heading to imo. Shit, look at NGE, look at FMA, look at Eifen Lied, or even freaking DL. Are they “aaah that was good now lets go to bed kids” endings? No. And thats what makes the series so damn timeless.
“Why the FUCK is gallatea comming back to screen when she’s supposed to remain in hiding till manga 74+ were she was rumored to become quite important?”
Did u ever finished reading the manga volume 11?
“The idea is NOT the same. The whole story is not the same. Hell, it cant even rly be called Claymore anymore.”
If u hate it that much and u cant take it then why dont u make ur own Claymore?
“Im tired of entire episodes dedicated to staring contests.
Im tired of scene reusal flashbacks.
Im tired of superduper fire-comming-from-dude powerup with no real effect or basis.
Im tired of hype-buildups with a one-move endings.
Im tired of crappy botched up endings were everyone dies or the main char somehow oneshot the big boss.
Im tired of fucking Rakki!”
Do u know it is suppose to end at ep 26?
“Would it have sucked if there was to be no season 2? No!”
You say “No” because u have read the manga, and what about ppl who dont read the manga? Are u saying that ppl have to wait for many years for the season 2 out just to hear that Miria is alive?
“And thats what makes the series so damn timeless.”
Have u seen its ending yet?
“How do you want me to give credit? If i cook you a 20$ steak, you eat it, then take a dump… will you ask credit for having made that poop?”
Why do i have to go there if i know u cook shit? The same go for u, Why do u continue to watch it if u know it is shittiest?
One last question from me, Do u want me to ask u some more questions?
Did u ever finished reading the manga volume 11?
-if you mean ch 73 up to yes i did.
If u hate it that much and u cant take it then why dont u make ur own Claymore?
-Cause i dont have the money nor the means to do so. Dumbest question ever. Can you skate? Say you dont, does that mean this 12 years old rolling around the block is a Skater pro?
Do u know it is suppose to end at ep 26?
-I can suppose, same as we all can. I was talking about this very episode, and quite probably from now to the end, i.e. the anime written part. Staring contest. Useless powerups. Mega hyped oneshot finisher. Damn flashback reuses. Damn Rakki! These were ALL in this one episode 23rd.
You say “No” because u have read the manga, and what about ppl who dont read the manga? Are u saying that ppl have to wait for many years for the season 2 out just to hear that Miria is alive?
-no, im saying ppl have to think for themselves and use their imagination a bit. They dont HAVE to know! Fine, you like being spoon fed. I dont. I love an ending that lets me speculate, and all the shows i meantioned have exactly that. Thats the major trademark of asian movie culture in general!
Have u seen its ending yet?
-no i havnt. But usually when a show goes from great to cliché, it rarely tends to go back to great. O sure there is still hope… if only a fool’s hope.
Why do i have to go there if i know u cook shit? The same go for u, Why do u continue to watch it if u know it is shittiest?
-the first part didnt make sens… i dont cook shit dumbass, you turn food into it, its called digestion. As for why i continue to watch it… who said i did? I watched up to 22. It was good. I watched 23. It was bad. Im commenting on how bad 23 is. For all you know, im not planning to bother with 24 and up at all.
One last question from me, Do u want me to ask u some more questions?
-sure… but this time try to have em make some sort of sens with whatever you are quoting.
First off,
/highfive Siva
Anyway,
Because Clare doesn’t use blade arms, and Raki just traveled with instead of chilling at Isley’s pad, and the scrubs are hiding, this means the entire ending sucks and now Claymore is like Sailor Moon and DBZ. Huh? So those things were really that important to Claymore’s story and awesomeness? I disagree, and think all these points are mere quibbles.
Most of the things you list being tired of apply to the manga (e.g. Raki). Also, as this is anime, they have to use some flashbacks in case someone missed an episode or didn’t remember. This series is meant to be seen on TV, btw. I don’t think it’s that excessive, but this was probably the only reasonable complaint you put forth.
Also, it is not that easy to turn a good manga into a good anime. So if you can do it, you deserve credit.
Finally, how can you criticize the ending when it hasn’t even been shown yet? Do you so badly want to dislike it? I really have to mention that your point about asian movie culture is ridiculous as well.
If you’ve never read the manga, you’ll be in for a shock if you ever do start reading it. Everything will be just as you remembered from the anime until suddenly the story completely changes.
I know from reading the manga that Miria came up with a working plan of survival for this zero possibility of success mission. Madhouse really need to work some three episode magic to do this series some justice. If they abandon Miria’s plan, my guess is a battle royal with Riful and Duf tagging in to help Clare.
ok i see ppl are arguing about whether or not the series is good or not.
just to point out i’m not here to argue i’m just here to state my opinion.
i personally hate shows where it builds hype then bam just ends it like wtc….. if he/she could have done that then why this whole show?
and thats what claymores become. in the manga yes there may be longer fights and longer talks but that builds up the dispair in the story. the hopeless one sided fight. i really hope this isn’t a spoiler because i’m not really spoiling anything to u but yah the fight with clare in the manga is pretty much like clare NEEDING to awaken almost completely to defeat rigald. in the anime she just gets faster. thats like “wow see, everyone whos slow sucks, and since i’m fast now i can defeat just about anyone” theres a reason why claymore isn’t about theresa (even thought she is the most awesomest charactor out there) its because they don’t want another hmm the main character can pretty much beat everyone so we’ll just keep making stronger ppl for her to overcome.
claymore is unique and all the lil small (long) talks and the prolonged and dragged out fights is to show the reader that the fight isn’t an easy battle. its not a battle like, i could win or i have the strength to win i’m just not in the right condition, its about the dismay and hoplessness of the situation where the characters are literally pushed into a corner and have almost no chance of survival.
MadHouse obviously did not understand this.
also when u deviate this much from the manga it just isn’t good.
they should have been more detailed and ended with a chop like “lil lights are going off…. and now theres no more…”
that way ppl want to read the manga so they can find out.
if u actually end it then ppl will be like oh… well that was dumb.
why introduce theresa, riful, duff, alicia, beth, and rapheala, and all the other characters that would have significance in the future.
Okay, New rule, whenever we venture into debates such as these, type in English, not chatspeak. It’s troublesome enough trying to understand the points you are trying to make without diciphering through chatspeak as well.
Anyway, I think the main reason why people dislike original anime endings is the fact that instead of making a brand new storyline altogether, they go with the manga storyline and then suddenly diverge of. This might not seem like much of a problem to you, but most manga generally have the entire skeleton of the storyline planned out, and usually include clues and mysteries that will be sloved later. When the anime diverges from the original material, they generally leave some of these mysteries unsloved or slove it in an unsatifactory way. Take for example, Great teacher Onizuka. Towards the end of the anime, there was a confrontation bewteen Miyabi and Urumi, where there was a hint about Urumi’s secret about her father, which has been mentioned many times before but due to the new ending, was never explained nor made known to the viewers. The ending also made almost no sense what-so-ever, and without revealing much, lets just say he’s definetely not qualified for such a position.
As well as that, most anime studios are generally made out of good animators and market specialist, not script writers. Whenever they change the storyline, they generally employ people of their own company to think up of a new conclusion, not the original writer. This results in a definite change in the way the story is told, such as it happens in naruto. Even though I didn’t read the manga until the filler arc, I, or most people who aren’t overly obessed with it could notice the change in the style the story plays out. The story also generally gets less deeper and straightforward, which most mangas tend to avoid.
That isn’t to say there aren’t any good anime original endings, but Claymore seems to be awlfully simplistic at the moment, and is getting more and more like a generic Shounen, which was one of Claymore’s best strength proir to this moment.
I’m also a manga reader and I agree that MADHOUSE really screw this series. I don’t mind with the changing if it “makes sense” and don’t ruin the story. This part in manga is truly masterpiece. It’s not over hype at all. But MADHOUSE is really bad at making up its own plot. I can’t believe that they destroy this wonderful series in just two episode! And this supposes to be the best part!?!
Things which don’t make sense.
- Where’re the other Awakened?
- Raki can go into town without encounter any Awakened!
- The refugee in episode 22 knows that there is lowest rank Claymore in town. *0* WTF!
Things which fugly.
- Drag on the fight with unnecessary scene
- Many ridiculous flashback
- Reuse the animation
- Poor script and storyboard
All above were made to fit the end of each episode with cliff-hanger scene. Normally it’s 3 chapter per episode but now it’s just 1 chapter per episode. No doubt that it destroys the flow and makes it look like filler (which is true).
I still hold my final judgment until the anime end. But if the anime can’t answer these questions then this will be another severe crime in anime adaptation. >:(
- Who’s No.5? Why is she special?
- What’s the Org. plan for sending 24 Claymores to suicide mission?
Those are major question which also presented in anime. Manga readers have already known the answer (and it’s really brilliant too). But now the story is altered, I want to know the anime still provides the answer or not?
@Cliff “even thought she is the most awesomest charactor out there” I guess it is more than that, she only use 10% of her yoma to defeat Priscilla and Priscilla only use 1 strike defeat Isleay and Isley defeat Rigardo without using his awaken form. And who do u think Teresa should be? ^_^
“if u actually end it then ppl will be like oh… well that was dumb.
why introduce theresa, riful, duff, alicia, beth, and rapheala, and all the other characters that would have significance in the future.”
I understand what u mean here and i hate when i want to see something but i cant in the anime, but we havent seen its ending yet and there is nothing confirmed about the season 2 will be never exist.
@Erv: “if you mean ch 73 up to yes i did.”
If u did, do u know Galatea suppose to show up after Clare vs Rigardo?
“Cause i dont have the money nor the means to do so. Dumbest question ever.”
If u dont have money nor mean to do so then u shouldnt complain it and the Dumbest question is the best thing to ask the Dumbest people, dont u think so? i dont mean my question is the Dumbest question but u r the one who said it urself.
“no, im saying ppl have to think for themselves and use their imagination a bit.”
Am i suppose to watch my anime or imagine it?
“I love an ending that lets me speculate, and all the shows i meantioned have exactly that. Thats the major trademark of asian movie culture in general!”
Speculation? Asian movies? If u want to talk about these 2 things, I would say u better not, My experience with Asian movie/drama is not like 2 days or 2 years, If i watch Asian movie/drama I can tell u what is going to happen in the next 5 ep or i can tell u who is going to die now/soon/at the end. Do u know y? because most of them r follow the same road.
“As for why i continue to watch it… who said i did?” You better dont take ur word back or even try to lie urself.
@Trellisaze: Everything is still possible yet.
@Kabitzin: “Finally, how can you criticize the ending when it hasn’t even been shown yet? Do you so badly want to dislike it? I really have to mention that your point about asian movie culture is ridiculous as well.” I guess we need another highfive ^_^
@hoho: u have make a lot of good points. But i will tell u what i think, Do u y they cut Alice’s scene at the end of ep17 and some other scenes that connect to the future ep? I guess they want this anime as short as possible. Do u know y Raki, Isley and Priscilla went to Pieta and Clare only awake her legs but can defeat Rigardo? Why they want to save the Arm-Knife Awaken? Do u got my point?
To everyone in here: What i am trying to say here it is not like i want to argue with everyone but my reason is PLEASE DON’T state ur opinion as like its actual ending. You havent seen the ending yet and how do u know it will happened that way?
siva: its true that theresa beat priscilla but pricilla has more potential then her. so maybe theresa is stronger then everyone else except priscilla
@Cliff:
Priscilla ‘had’ the potential to be number one but she awakened before she reached her full potential. Teresa was going to kill her because she sensed that Priscilla might be trouble in the future.
In vol. 9 of the manga but left out of episode 17, Riful mentions that ….. Show ▼
Show ▼
@Cliff: “its true that theresa beat priscilla but pricilla has more potential then her. so maybe theresa is stronger then everyone else except priscilla”
I guess u might be right, here. But Teresa never say she will be defeat the next time they meet, she only says “I cant say the same about the next time I meet her.”
Teresa is already incredible strong since she was young even Rafaela was surprised when she met the young Teresa and she even really surprised when she heard about Teresa died.
Yes Clare, Miria, Helen and Deneve “died” during the battle of Pieta. Easley mentions how the lights were slowly going out. That was how their deaths were being implied. But considering the nature of the series, it may be a bit hard for most to just believe that Clare is dead. And so here would mark the start of the time jump. But if I recall right, within the gap there are a series of high suspense events occuring. Like Alicia and Beth, Lucia and Rafaelia’s story, the awaken ones being wiped out and of course the battle between the abyssal ones etc.
But like you stated, the main problem would be the period of time it may take for the anime to get enough content. The manga originally released at a rate of one chapter per month, which I think went up to two recently. I personally would not mind if the anime did the same. Some OVAs also go along with this practice I think.. Though I’m not sure if this would conflict with production and profit values etc. for Megahouse..
Oh and about Teresa, the organization does not know everything about Teresa and the extent of her power. Well even then she was marked with an S in Yoki, but the point is that she hides her powers. Priscilla has potential, and Teresa sensed this also and knew that she can become a big pain in the neck in the future.
What we do know is that Priscilla’s potential is higher than Teresa’s presentation to the organization. When Pricsilla was awakening and at 80%ish, Teresa was able to defeat her with just 10% of her power. Before that Irene had commented about how no one can even stop the monster now called Pricsilla, showing again just how much the organization knows about Teresa.
Well yeh I’m a Teresa fanboy *squeals
@DSJFX18: “I personally would not mind if the anime did the same.”
- I agreed with u, but i just try to explain y Madhouse makes anime deviate from the manga.
“What we do know is that Priscilla’s potential is higher than Teresa’s presentation to the organization. When Pricsilla was awakening and at 80%ish, Teresa was able to defeat her with just 10% of her power. Before that Irene had commented about how no one can even stop the monster now called Pricsilla, showing again just how much the organization knows about Teresa.”
- You got all the points here.
And all we know so far in the manga, the 3 strongest characters up-to-date in Claymore r not the Abyssal Ones but They are Teresa, Priscilla and Miata(I am pretty sure she is).
Anyway now my Galatea is in trouble facing Miata.
Trellisaze and Siva : well yah but i think priscilla actually was stronger then theresa but she just couldn’t use it. cuz remember she’s just a rookie. becuz remember theresa says she can’t say she can beat her the next time they meet which would be at max a month and priscilla can’t reach her potential in just a month. so maybe she was always wicked strong but just couldn’t use it.
(same with when she fought Isley)
When Teresa mentions that she can’t say the same about next time, it simply means that there is uncertainty. If Pricsilla’s potential is indeed higher than Teresa or enough that it would make a difference in battle, Teresa’s thoughts would have been quite different. However since the sentence implies that the battle can go both ways, Teresa and Priscilla may be rivaled in power or very near each other.
Its also important to note that Teresa has a superior sense as a warrior, hence why she can just toy around with an almost awakened Priscilla with the minimal power needed.
@Cliff:
You can’t change the fact that Teresa was the current number one and that Priscilla, even though she was just a child, was ranked number two.
Yes, Priscilla ‘had’ the potential to be stronger than Teresa but she awakened before she ever reached her true potential.
Remember Teresa’s quote to Priscilla from episode eight, “We all gradually learn the limits of our yoma powers in battle. You don’t even have that experience.”
Also you have to remember Miria’s quote near the end of episode eleven, “Your powers have risen significantly following your awakening. I’m sure you can rival any of the single-digit warriors now.”
My guess is that each time a Claymore approaches awakening they get stronger when they return to normal and their yoma limit increases.
In episode eight, Irene couldn’t tell which Claymore had the far larger amount of yoki between Priscilla @ 80% and Teresa @ 10% of her power.
Maybe 10% = 80% therefore Teresa > (Priscilla)² x yoma ÷ (yoma limit)³.
Trellisaze: but if u remember priscilla fights theresa without any yoki at first but gradually loses confidence in herself which is why she lost (or at least thats what i think)
@Cliff:
No, no, no. Priscilla was terrified that Teresa was going to kill her and had a flash-back to some childhood trauma.
Teresa only released 10% of her power after Priscilla had lost control and was accusing Teresa of killing her family. Priscilla landed a cheap-shot after pretending to surrender.
Teresa had become sentimental and merciful because of her relationship with Clare.
@Trellisaze: You got a lot of good points there at 45.
@Cliff: i will say something that maybe make u cam accept the fact that Teresa is stronger than Priscilla.
1. You need to remember that Teresa is a kind of person who is like to play around and she is rarely getting serious.
2. No body know how strong Teresa is even the Organization or Irene who is the only one that is much closer to her never know how strong she is.(I guess maybe Rafaela who is the only figure out) Teresa never revealed her true power, thats why the Organization only send 4 Claymores to take her head down instead of 46 Claymores on 1 or even lets her go just like they did to Abyss One. Thats mean the Organization misunderstand/underestimated her in latent potential.
-Now i will explain why Teresa is stronger than Priscilla .
First, I will explain why Priscilla can put a lot of pressure on Teresa at the beginning. At the beginning Teresa never though that Priscilla who is such a kid could be this good and she was trying to figure out how strong Priscilla is instead of used something powerful and kill Priscilla in one blow. Why? Check the #1. After she figure out the strength of Priscilla then she just push her strength to above Priscilla’s then defeat her.
Second, When 4 on 1 and the 4 of them released their yoma power of 10% vs Teresa’s raw skill, as u can see that their speed combine 4 together cant even match with Teresa’s raw skill. And Irene even said “I though that with the 4 of us, we could take her on…. Have i underestimated Teresa once again?” and Later Irene said “That Priscilla has the potential to eventually surpass her…” You know what, we just know that Irene didnt know the latent Potential of Teresa. So what Irene said above about Teresa’s Potential compare to Priscilla’s can not be trust.
Third, when Teresa said “I cant say the same about the next time I meet her” this doesnt mean Teresa confirm her defeat for the next time they fight. What i would guess is, Teresa though that the next time she meet Priscilla she will have to use something much stronger than this time. Don’t forgot that Teresa already know that this time she can just defeat Priscilla without rely on her yoma power.
Fourth, “In episode eight, Irene couldn’t tell which Claymore had the far larger amount of yoki between Priscilla @ 80% and Teresa @ 10% of her power.
Maybe 10% = 80% therefore Teresa > (Priscilla)² x yoma ÷ (yoma limit)³. ” (credits go to Trellisaze ^_^)
-With this 4 reasons I point out, what do u think, Cliff?
I would guess Teresa’s power will be revealed later in manga by Clare or/and Rafaela.
*siva and trellisaze: i guess ur right but still… but still why would theresa think about killing priscilla?
*continue*
also i just thought of one more thing.
priscilla is probally not stronger then theresa or any other number 1 but since she did a purposeful awakening instead of a “accidental awakening maybe thats why she so powerful…
yah i know i’m going against my own arguments. but i suddenlly remember what riful said about the different awakenings.
@Cliff: “… but still why would theresa think about killing priscilla?”
I’m sure that the Teresa that put the boots to Clare in episode five would’ve killed Priscilla without a thought.
She knew the other claymore’s weren’t any threat but recognized that Priscilla might be trouble in the future. Just as Clare has become stronger, I’m sure Priscilla could’ve become stronger.
My guess is that only claymores can increase their strength over time. Awakened ones don’t seem to be able to get any stronger. That would explain why in episode fifteen Riful had Duff killed that awakened claymore for being too weak.
The fact that the other four claymores released their yoma powers when fighting Teresa was why Teresa won in the first place. As Irene said, Teresa’s skills aren’t all that remarkable, the individual skills of the Irene, Sophia and Noel surpassed that of Teresa. Teresa kept her rank because of her ability to sense yoki and react accordingly.
Remember, Teresa had difficulty with Priscilla because Priscilla was able to supress her yoki. Teresa was only able to overcome Priscilla’s initial assault through the grace of her experience. Indeed without her acute ability to sense yoki, Teresa would only be an average claymore.
@Trellisaze: “My guess is that only claymores can increase their strength over time. Awakened ones don’t seem to be able to get any stronger. That would explain why in episode fifteen Riful had Duff killed that awakened claymore for being too weak.”
- Why do your quotes always make sense to me?
@Cliff: “why would theresa think about killing priscilla?”
- I guess u understand what your question mean, but will u understand what my question mean? “Why would Teresa lets Priscilla go instead of taking her head down?”
- Ok i will try to find a way to make it easy to explain it to u.
I will guess that Teresa know what is the strength of Priscilla has, I will explain it to Number so we can easily understand it, I will give it 100 dmg(damage) and this is what Priscilla true power has but at that time she only manage to achieve it only 30 dmg of her 100 dmg and Teresa has somewhere above 100 dmg. That is make sense to why Teresa said that she says the same the next time they met again.
- If u want me to explain how does this explanation make sense to that battle, then alright.
@@@ - you know that Irene know nothing about Teresa true power, so what she explains to everyone is not 100% true. And the reason y nobody know Teresa has her power above 100 dmg because everyone only know what she want to let them know and only see what she let them see. And how do i know Teresa has above 100 dmg even above Priscilla’s? Because she keep Priscilla alive instead of take her head off. Teresa knows that even in the near future Priscilla can achieve her 100dmg she still need a little bit long way before Priscilla can surpassed her.
- I will explain y i am so pretty sure that Irene know nothing about Teresa true power. As u can see that Irene can’t even predict how strong Teresa is and Im pretty sure that she has cross sword with Teresa many times already but she still can’t even guess strong Teresa is? She has never seen Teresa release her 10% yoma power yet until that fight with Priscilla. I guess this is enough for explain it.
@ItAintEazy: (what i said above also apply to u too) And Teresa is not a average claymore even without without her acute ability to sense yoki, she is still an Elite Pro of Claymore. As u can see in that battle even with the fast atk speed and incredible move speed that Priscilla used to atk her and even without rely on her ability to sense yoki she still handle it like nothing after a moment of the battle. Do u see how god she is now?
Apart from her acute sense of Yoki flow, Teresa also have access to her enormous bank of Yoki. And of course you know that this makes you faster, stronger and better in everyway physically right? (Aside from aesthetics like Galatea mentioned.)
Well even without her ability, her stats that the organization gauged at her would be enough to make her much more than an average Claymore. Also note that the Organization does not have an accurate judgement of the sly Teresa, as revealed in the manga special.
Since Teresa is so used to her extra advantage, she was surprised by it being negated and also by Priscilla’s remarkable strength. Priscilla is also by no means an average Claymore.
@ItAintEazy: “Indeed without her acute ability to sense yoki, Teresa would only be an average claymore.”
You could say the same thing about Clare. If you took a skill from any claymore you could probably call them average as well.
Teresa and Priscilla were very similar. Priscilla always fought while supressing her yoki to the limit. Teresa didn’t need to release her powers because she could acutely sense yoki.
but theresa always had the really huge yoki.
its just everyon underestimated her ability.
cuz remember she killed that former number 1 that awakened and i’m pretty sure it takes more then really good yoki sensing skills to do that.
WHY!?! Why did he have to die? He was my favorite Yoki monster thing in the series!
It was a nice fight though.